There have been several great fights recently that were brought to closure with the triumphant standing over his vanquished foe and claiming victory. Fight fans will not soon forget Joe Calzaghe rising from a first round knock down only to thoroughly manhandle the once great, but tired Roy Jones, again setting claim to his status as an all-time great. Behemoth, Brock Lesnar smashed, quite literally, the aged but heroic Randy Couture into the mat to win the UFC’s Heavyweight championship and usher in a new era for the sport dominated by speed, power and freakish genetics. Of course then there was another fight on the national scene engaged in, once again, by another elder statesman, a white war-torn veteran and a new, sleeker African-American challenger promising change and rebirth. It was on the eve of our recent election that I had the privilege of talking with Sam Sheridan, author of A Fighter’s Heart and modern day fight philosopher and proponent.
Sam begins our discussion with a statement about being ready for the election to be over with so that he can resume normal life. This by no means so much a statement of apathy toward the election as it is a confirmation of his support and hard efforts towards electing a particular candidate. I do not ask Sam about which candidate he is endorsing and laboring for and he does not force it on me either. The early talk of a new president reminded me of the quote in the first chapter of Sam’s book where he talks about the poem he carried in his own wallet after reading that John F. Kennedy had done the same.
Bullfight critics, ranked in rows,
Crowd the enormous plaza full.
But only one is there who knows,
And he’s the man that fights the bull.
Sam says, “I loved that quote. I carried it in my own wallet for years, well through college, until that wallet was lost when I flipped the dinghy during a hurricane in Bermuda. I wanted to be the one who knows. To me, the quote wasn’t just about critics and performers and artists. The man in the ring knows, and not just about that particular bullfight and whether or not he did a good job. He knows.”
This quote introduces the thrust of what Sam goes on to describe as his pursuit to “know.” The ensuing quest of Sam’s life takes this former Merchant Marine and Harvard graduate sailing aboard a rich man’s yacht literally around the world only to wind up in Australia where he finds himself “loaded with cash” and planning to “not to work again until I’d spent it all.” Sam winds up working for Raytheon in Antarctica and fighting fires with the Gila Hot Shots over the next several years. He also travels to Thailand where he trains Muay Thai kickboxing at the famed Fair Tex gym. A Fighters Heart goes on to describe the journey as Sam trains with Olympic boxer and now undefeated pro, Andre Ward, UFC veteran and renowned trainer, Pat Miletich and even the jiu-jitsu greats at Brazilian Top Team.
I was personally impacted greatly by Sam’s affirmation that fighting is something deeply inborn within us as men and it is the truest proving grounds for who we are and where our real identity might be found. A broken nose, countless black eyes and assortment of other injuries r, I have Sam to thank for all of these along with my lack luster amateur fighting record, two years after reading A Fighter’s Heart. This interview was my opportunity to thank Sam personally and find out what is going on with the writer warrior currently.
8 Count: So, maybe I hear that you are working on a follow up book and if that’s true, how is it coming along?
Sam Sheridan: Well, I don’t know if it’s ‘coming along’, but it’s ‘breathing hard’ as they say. It’s a follow up book on the mental side of fighting. There is always that…thing…that fighters say. You hear them say statements such as ‘fighting is 60% mental or 90% mental’, but no one ever gets much deeper about the subject. I had offers to write some ‘how-to’ books. I’m not really interested at this point in writing about take-downs or counter moves from the clinch. I want to explore an entirely different subject matter. I think there is a really interesting book out there about what takes place in a fighters mind to prepare them to fight. Traditional publishing is a long, slow process…so don’t look for anything any earlier than next fall or winter.”
8Count: Well, there’s no doubt you certainly have something there. You’ve said before, part of the reason for writing the first book was that you went looking for good books on MMA and fighting and they did not exist. A lot has changed since then in the world of fighting, but I don’t know that anyone has addressed the mental side of fighting. I’m sure it’s a major undertaking.
Sam:
“It’s been daunting at times. In the middle of the process, it’s looking better than I thought. So we’ll see what happens. I’m working hard on it, but you are right, it’s no small task. ”
Matt:
“Did you have any idea how successful the first book was going to be?”
Sam:
“No, I had no idea. In terms of how the book got started, how the book got turned into a book from magazine pieces, it’s pretty crazy. I really did not see the explosion of MMA happening like it has. I sort of knew it was coming and knew it was going to be a big sport. Still in terms of what happened with the success of the Ultimate Fighter in 05, it’s exceeded everyone’s expectations. Most agree that that show changed the landscape of MMA as a whole. I was finishing the book just as the show was started. I finished the book and the show came out. That certainly helped out as people took more interest in the fighting world at that point. I remember talking to my publisher and telling them I think this book is going to be much bigger overseas just because of the markets that exist already in Brazil, England and Japan and so on. I was right in that sense. It’s done well in different parts of the world. I’m not a millionaire or anything. It’s been interesting to see the growth of the sport, what it’s done and what it hasn’t done.
The UFC having a stranglehold on the market and the failure of most all of the other promotions, has impacted directly what MMA is capable of. Of course the failure of Pride was a bummer. In terms of my fighter friends having options. UFC has done something incredible, but I do think they get credit for something that was probably going to happen anyway. The growth was there and ready to happen. You have something very real going on. It’s not the result of clever marketing or just a great reality TV show…it’s a real sport. Sure, the show helped. The elements were there, it was a matter of getting the product out. Free fights on TV changed everything. I’m not sure if that answers your question or not.”
Matt:
“Actually it leads really well into my next question for you. You mentioned that the sport has tapped into a very real vein of society. One that feeds the core of who people are maybe. It’s not purely entertainment; it’s an extension of the struggle we live with. You said in your book, “as a boy you idolized fighters.” Tell me about a potential contrast in modern society as a force of culture is trying to squash the natural tendency of people to ‘fight’ or act in aggressive pursuit of conquering something all in the name of stopping violence and at the same time the growth of a sport like Mixed Martial Arts?”
Sam:
“First of all there is a great misunderstanding that the world is growing more violent. This simply isn’t the case. Basically violent crimes are down significantly since the 60’s and 70’s per se, but violent crime reporting has increased that much more exponentially. It’s much about what we hear and see is going on in the world, than what is really happening.”
Matt:
“Is it simply a matter of perception becoming a reality? The perception is, culturally we are more violent, when in fact we are not?”
Sam:
“Yes, I do believe that to be the case. We haven’t had a real World War in a long time. We are in a war now, but it’s not on the scale of what took place in the early and middle of the 20th century. There’s a feeling that the world is getting worse. Most of this idea is a product of a 24 hour news cycle and the type of reporting that sells papers and news channels. I think there’s always been this idea that there is a feminizing of the city or of modern culture. Boxing, for a long time, stood as a counter to that. So, yes, there is that fear in modern culture, but I think what fighting really is about, is not ‘that.” Meaning, the rise in popularity of fighting as a sport is not related to a rise in violence. That’s a misconception that people make who don’t really think at all. That’s a knee jerk reaction with no real thought applied to. Meeting someone in a cage or ring is so far from meeting someone in the street. You are meeting someone there who is well prepared and trained like you are. You are equal in almost every measurable way. It’s not picking a fight with some guy in a bar. That’s street fighting.”
Matt:
“I talk with people regularly that believe what’s taking place in the cage is barbaric or even purely violence for the sake of violence. Still there is not even a correlation to the violence people fear is on the rise and more available in television programming, video games or even on the street. How do we legitimize the sport and win this argument. This is a fair argument, is it not?”
Sam:
“People say that we are seeing signs of the apocalypse and signs of the end times. We are all so worried that violence is rampant and everyone is trying to hurt someone else. This is not reflected in the slightest by fight sports. What’s happening in fighting is so much about the truth in a way and reality. Joyce Carol Oates said much about not understanding fighting until you really get close to it in her book On Boxing. She says basically what you see as mindless brutality becomes beautiful when you truly understand what is going on in the ring. One skilled man against another strategizing and putting in to place all that he has prepared for, working an art. It’s a tough subject, I’m not sure if that’s going where you want to or not.”
Matt:
“Yes, it is, and I agree, I guess what I’m getting at is as a practitioner of fighting sports myself, for the most part, the people in my circle or I encounter, other than those involved in the sport, think that I am crazy. The consensus believes I must have issues or something I’m trying to work out by being violent with another human being.”
Sam:
“I totally understand where you’re coming from. But, people that think that, have absolutely no understanding of what is really taking place there. It’s a thought pattern that is bred out of ignorance and fear. They do not get two men fighting. These are the people who hated jocks in high school and still hate them. (Laughing) They may have issues of their own about fighting and fear.
That being said, there are some worrisome affects of violence. Studies show that you do not really get things out your system through fighting. It’s not a means of a really releasing things. If anything, you gain a need or grow more dependent on exerting that violence. Still, the guys who do it professionally or even train a lot do not necessarily street fight a lot, if ever. It’s more about knowing you can protect yourself at all times and a confidence your capability brings. Street or bar fighting happens out of a self-conscious insecurity. It’s about lacking a confidence and the feeling to have to prove one’s self. When you start training and becoming capable, you start learning who you really are. There is confidence in that. It’s what I wrote the first book on…fighting is about identity. You have to learn to fight within your identity.
Matt:
“So, you said in the book that eventually your “curiosity edged out your fear.” What do you do today that keeps you curious and fighting your fear? Are you still training?”
Sam:
“Yeah, I’m still training some. I still battle some rib problems. I will probably never fight again just because I’m a little past the point that I can train like I would need to and the whole process of trying to make weight and so on. These are all things I don’t really feel like doing anymore. I still sail. I have a lot of other interests besides fighting. I work out at several MMA schools around here in LA, but mostly doing stand – up and boxing. It never goes away though. You can’t get rid of that desire.”
“But, of course I’m married now, and have a kid on the way so that is a whole new adventure headed my direction.”
Matt:
“Speaking of your wife (acclaimed Hollywood director, Patty Jenkins) obviously she is well-respected and connected in the entertainment industry…has there ever been any talks of the book being made into a movie?”
Sam:
“There was some talks of a TV show at one point. But I guess Hollywood’s grasp of MMA, is unfortunately more along the lines of Bloodsport than Million Dollar Baby at the moment. I’m continuing to pitch ideas and I have an agent, but Hollywood is in a weird phase right now. The financial crisis has had an enormous effect.”
Matt:
“Do you keep in touch with Andre Ward?” (16 – 0 WBO NABO super middleweight title holder
Sam:
“Actually I just went out and interviewed him and Virgil not long ago for this new book I’m doing. I wanted to talk to him about his faith. I think that’s an important aspect to his career. He’s a very interesting fighter. The criticism of him is that he’s not always an exciting fighter to watch. Virgil, his trainer, calls Andre a lethal injection. His analogy seems pretty accurate in that Andre breaks fighters down like an deadly drug circulating through their system. He starts with one angle and then moves to another, slowly picking you apart until you’re finished. It’s a slower approach to taking an opponent out, like a lethal injection. He’s a very old school fighter in a lot of ways. The approach to bringing him along is very different than most fighters today. They want to expose him to as much as possible in his fighting journey. They are not rushing to throw him in a major prize fight with a Kelly Pavlik for example. I think Ring magazine has called him one of the most protected prospects out there. But, it’s intentional. They are brining him along in an ole school way. You used to have to have 50 or 60 fights before you got a title shot, as opposed to 15 or 16 today. I find him a really, really interesting fighter to watch.”
Matt:
“Will boxing ever experience a true revival and rival the new found popularity of MMA?”
Sam:
“I personally think the growth of MMA is good for boxing. There are more crossover fans than most people think. MMA forced a lot of good cards in boxing. This year has been full of huge boxing fights. Promoters had to put these together to compete with what is happening in MMA. In that way it’s good for the sport of boxing. We are now seeing the biggest fighters fighting each other. I think the other major sports have hurt boxing more than anything else. The NBA and the NFL primarily. If you are a big, super athletic kid, why would you box when you could make millions of dollars playing these other sports? Boxing is still great. I think the two sports help each other.”
Matt:
“Let’s close with this. Dana White has said something to effect of if there was a group of kids playing basketball on one corner, baseball on another and then football on another…but a fight breaks out on the fourth one. Everyone goes to the fight. This is indicative of the ability for fighting to appeal to everyone in the world. He claims within a few years mixed martial arts will be the number one sport in the world. Agree or disagree?”
Sam:
“It will continue to be huge. I do think the days of the heavyweight champion being the king of the world are over. Years ago, everyone knew where they stood in the fighting status of a community. Kids did at least. You knew who the toughest kid on the block was. Then you knew who the toughest kid in the city was. Then this kid Sugar Ray Robinson would come in and whip all of the others. You had a direct correlation to violence. There was some writing on the changing of major sports and the agrarian process. The theory is that baseball with it’s no time limits was huge in a certain era, and then football grew during the Cold War and now basketball and it’s free-wheeling expressive style is on top as reflected by culture. I don’t 100% agree with this theory. I don’t know that we will see a sudden resurgence of all fight sports where they will become king, but it will be a strong part of our sporting culture for a long time.”
I thank Sam for his time and urge to hurry up the writing process, so we can all understand what takes place in one’s mind to allow you to step into a cage or ring ready for battle. My gut tells me Sam is pleased the following day when that young, up and coming prospect mentioned earlier used his bob and weave approach to land all the necessary shots to become our nation’s next president. Maybe now the fight philosopher can get back to the his life of finding out what moves and make a fighter fight and we won’t have to wait long on that book.
