UFC and Boxing: Pro Debuts Against Former World Champs

Former three division boxing world champion James Toney (72-6-3, 44 KO’s in boxing) will do something rare and unprecedented when he makes his pro MMA debut against UFC hall of famer Randy Couture (18-10, 7 KO’s, 3 submissions in MMA) this Saturday in Boston.

He’ll be making his pro MMA debut inside a UFC octagon and he’ll be making his debut against a former world champion.

The only active UFC fighters from this decade to make their pro debut’s in the UFC instead of previously starting off in more minor league organizations are current UFC heavyweight Matt Mitrione (2-0, 2 KO’s in MMA) and welterweight Amir Sadollah (3-2, 1 submission). Both earned their spot in the organization as contestants on the reality TV competition “The Ultimate Fighter”.

Mitrione was brought onto the show as part of a gimmick of season 10 where some contestants were former NFL players. He had previously played for the New York Giants as a defensive tackle. Sadollah had an undefeated 4-0 amateur MMA record prior to his appearance on the reality show and made his proper pro MMA debut winning the live championship fight of season 7. Bouts on the show that are taped don’t count because they’re classified as exhibitions.

There have been a few cases of current UFC stars making their pro debuts against former world champions outside the UFC. Former light heavyweight champion Forrest Griffin entered the paid ranks in 2003 by dropping a unanimous decision to former UFC tournament winner and future hall of famer Dan Severn.

I asked former Massachusetts’s boxing commission chairman Dan Fitzgerald about the Couture – Toney MMA fight this Saturday and how he would feel about it if he were on the commission sanctioning this fight.

Admittedly Fitzgerald has never seen Couture fight. However, here’s what he had to say.

“I think I probably would have voted to sanction the fight assuming that I would have, at a minimum, watched some of Couture's fights first, and had seen that he was a fair match for Toney, that he (Couture) was a professional, and in good shape, tough, capable, etc.”

Saturday’s UFC event featuring Couture – Toney will be the second MMA event to hit a major arena in Massachusetts since the state began regulating the sport earlier this year.

The first event featured former UFC heavyweight champ Tim Sylvia taking on MMA newcomer and Polish strongman competitor Mariusz Pudzianowski at a Moosin MMA event in May. Sylvia was a 32 fight veteran entering the bout. Pudzianowski had just 2 fights prior. Sylvia thoroughly outclassed his neophyte opponent en route to a 2nd round submission due to strikes.

So what if the tide was turned and Randy Couture were entering the boxing ring? Would this fight be approved inside the ropes instead of inside the cage?

Fitzgerald said, ‘Even without ever having seen Couture fight, or knowing that he was a force in the MMA world, if he was making his pro debut as a boxer, and even taking into consideration that Toney is way past his prime, I don't think that I would vote to sanction that fight. Boxing is one art form, not a combination of forms, while Mixed Martial Arts is just that ‘mixed’. So, I think it is far easier for a boxer to enter the MMA arena, like Ray Mercer, was able to do, for instance, than the other way around.”

Fitzgerald refers to the one other noteworthy time a former boxing standout entered the MMA arena to fight a former UFC champion. 1988 Olympic boxing gold medalist Ray Mercer made his MMA pro debut against the former UFC champ Sylvia and needed all of 9 seconds to knock the former UFC star out cold last year.

“It was originally suppose to be a boxing match but then they had some commission problems and it got changed to a MMA fight”, Mercer said recently over the phone. “I was mad as hell and wanted to knock him out as quick as possible. They can say I was lucky but truth is that punch landed exactly where I wanted it to land and he stayed on the mat just like I wanted him to, thank god.”

Mercer had competed at least once in MMA prior to that bout losing an exhibition to youtube star Kimbo Slice in 2007. He’s now taking MMA more seriously and has a bout scheduled next month at Foxwoods for the King of the Cage MMA promotion against the undefeated Ron Sparks (5-0, 4 KO’s in MMA).

“Boxing is still in my heart but I found MMA in my heart too” Mercer said. “I train for the stand up part of the sport with boxing and train to wrestle on the ground. Sometimes the ground training is like being in a real fight you’re so sore at the end of it.”

Not too many MMA stars have wanted to cross over into boxing the way Toney has wanted to get into MMA. The lone notable example is UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva (27-4, 15 KO’s, 5 submissions in MMA) expressing his desire to fight former boxing 4 division champ Roy Jones Jr. (54-7, 40 KO’s in boxing) inside the ring. Jones seemed to like the idea, but UFC officials did not. According to boxrec.com, Silva has fought professionally as a boxer twice going 1-1, with 1 KO to his credit. He was stopped in his lone loss in 1998 in the 2nd round.

In boxing it’s very rare that a fighter would make his pro debut against a former world champ. However, it has happened. One fighter even made his pro debut against a current world champ.

Washington state native Pete Rademacher, the 1956 Olympic heavyweight boxing gold medalist, made his pro debut in 1957 challenging heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson. Rademacher dropped Patterson in the 2nd round, but was eventually knocked to the canvas 6 times himself and was KO’d in the 6th round. Rademacher would never again challenge for a belt and retire in 1962 with a record of 15-7, with 8 KO’s.

In 1994, New York’s John Carlo defeated former heavyweight champ Leon Spinks via first round knockout in his pro debut. Carlo would never challenge for a world title and last fought in 2005 finishing his career with a record of 14-2, with 12 KO’s.

However, Toney will be entering new territory Saturday night when he fights an MMA legend in the sports premiere league in his first MMA bout.




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So how do these experienced professionals see the Couture – Toney fight playing out?

Former Massachusetts’s boxing commission chair Fitzgerald said:

“Since Couture is not a boxer, and, therefore, not exposed to the kinds of timing and power of a boxer's punch like Toney's, not that Toney has an enormously big punch but it will certainly be enough, that if Toney hits Couture, he will stop Couture soon. The same goes the other way, since Toney is not a martial artist, if Couture is able to get his hands on Toney, he will cause Toney to submit somehow, and the fight will end soon in Couture's favor. So, I think that no matter what, the fight will end soon.”

Mercer said, “Couture controls his own destiny in this fight. If he stands up and tries to box with James Toney he’ll get knocked out in 12 seconds. But if he uses his wrestling background and takes him to the ground he can end the fight within a matter of time.”

Other people with experience in boxing and MMA share similar views.

Mark Vaz, current manager of junior middleweight contender Sechew Powell in boxing and matchmaker for the American Fighting Organization in MMA, said:

“I think Couture will win fairly easily. As a boxer, Toney was a counter-puncher who fought off the ropes, and in MMA that is not a viable strategy. A Tyson-type guy who comes ahead low and has very fast, accurate power punches will do fine, but Toney's not that kind of guy. He gets tapped out in a minute.”


Boxing trainer / manager Sean Farley, who also teaches striking to MMA fighters at Team Fury in Methuen, Massachusetts thinks Couture wins easily as well.

“I think Couture wins the fight. He’s too smart to stand up and trade with Toney and should go in for a takedown and take care of business there. Of course a fights a fight and Toney could land something big and end it, but everything favors Couture to win this fight.”

Farley went on to discuss a size disadvantage for Toney in the bout saying, “James Toney at his best was a 168 pounder in my opinion. Randy Couture has always fought in the UFC as a heavyweight and light heavyweight so he’s naturally a bigger and probably stronger guy than Toney. If he gets on top of him, I don’t think Toney will have the strength to get him off and get the fight back standing up.”




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More Notes:


Let’s not forget that the actual main event for this Saturday’s UFC 118 event is the lightweight championship rematch between Frankie Edgar (12-1, 2 KO’s, 3 submissions) and BJ Penn (15-6-1, 6 KO’s, 6 submissions). This fact seems to be lost in the amount of press coverage Couture – Toney is getting.



Jerry “The King” Lawler mentioned in a recent WWE broadcast that he once fought Leon Spinks. If anyone can find any youtube video of this, please send to Peter@NESportsTV.com. I’d love so see it.



- I recently did the play-by-play for AFO MMA on DVD. It marked the second time I’ve ever done play by play for an MMA event after commentating for numerous boxing broadcasts over the past few years. You can purchase the DVD at www.NESportsTV.com.



The first time I ever did play-by-play for an MMA event, a little known fighter from New York named Jon Jones made his pro debut. He fully flipped a guy over via a belly to back suplex and won via first round TKO. I think everyone made a mental note to keep an eye on his career from that point forward that night.



To view a preview of the AFO MMA DVD, check out this link that features highlights from the event and an interview I conducted with promoter Pete Dilorenzo. -